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Brookings Institute -- Neighborhoods session
Q and A following basic presentation
July 16, 2002
Jonathan Lowe (Community Resource Network):
Report is great starting point for community as it embarks on a new
part of our life. The question I have is this, regarding the relationship
between the regional vision plan being put forward and the idea of
inter-management. How do we develop a structured meaningful neighborhood
engagement that¹s informing people and at the same time improve our
regional vision on that local level? I see a couple of challenges
there for the next couple of years You know, it¹s something that I think most
places in the United States are really struggling with because in many
respects, region are just aggregations of neighborhoods, and yet we
haven¹t really found the right level of participation or connecting the dots.
Neighborhoods. When you say neighborhoods to government leaders in
many cities throughout the country that¹s just something over there.
Small-level development and, yes, some nasty little zoning and land-use questions
and so forth. And what they really become captivated by are the big projects
-- the stadiums, the waterfront expansions. They¹re really important and
one thing I want to stress here is how critical it is to think about those
things. Very few places have really figured out how to integrate
neighborhood planning into a larger scheme. Some have. Charlotte has
really focused on governing in a way that¹s connected and tailored and
adapted to the neighborhoods. Portland obviously --has really figured
out how to have this balance between the regional, large-scale
intervention, many decentralization, promoting central city vitality and showing that
in particular places, particular communities, people have a say.
Really starts from the top, starts from the beginning to have
neighborhoods at the forefront of how to proceed and to make sure that
from a planning perspective, but more important as you get into the
different silos, mousetrap. As you get into housing, as you get into workforce,
economic development, business investment, business development. As
you go into these different silos, every single one of those has to have that
neighborhood focus and attention.
So practically speaking, it¹s easy to say we¹re going to integrate
neighborhood thinking throughout the government, hard to do, but it
doesn¹t start or stop with an office of neighborhoods or a special assistant
for neighborhoods -- that¹s just window dressing. Anytime someone does
that, the red flag goes up. That can¹t be the response. It¹s got to be
really built into the system of all these different bureaucracies and agencies
so that people are sensitive to and not just sensitive to, but seek out
the guidance of local leaders.
Carolyn Gatz:
Another thought that just dawned on me as I was listening to the
presentation the multiple ties more recently we have. We just met
with Greater Louisville Inc. before coming over here. It has an integrated
agenda. We who work in community development tend think ²okay finally
we¹re going to get the corporate types to recognize that neighborhoods and
families are competitive issues for them. What struck me is that
that¹s also true with community development and all. We tend to think that
our issues related to neighborhoods are things that go both ways.
Amy Liu (Brookings):
Speaking about merger in Kansas City (She suggested local people
visit there.) 89 neighborhoods, geographically large city. Planning began
with a metro planning office -- an opportunity to start planning throughout
county, to try to assess the different market conditions. What are your
challenges. We just sort of went through an assessment of neighborhoods. All those
things have to lead into a larger process.
Barbara Shanklin (Newburg area):
She is concerned about large concentration of Sect. 8 housing in her
area. ³How do we stabilize our neighborhood?²
Bruce Katz (Brookings):
Talked about communities around the country, like a county near
Seattle, Washington, that has inclusionary zoning. Example: when a subdivision
of 50 units is built, 10 or 15 percent of those apartments or homes need
to be for people of modest means. He called that ³intelligent policy -- the
deconcentration of poverty on one hand, and you¹re giving low-income
folks acts access to opportunity in growing communities in the region.²
Comes back to government direction and government mandates. If
you don¹t say this is the way it¹s going to be, it will not happen. You¹ll
come back in 10 years --it will be worse.
Unidentified man:
Suggested merger passed because unincorporated parts of the county
wanted representation. Should be a compact that if you work, you should not
be poor. Elderly don¹t work now, but did -- some people can¹t work
because of disabilities --need to have a strong fundamental commitment as the
country and as the locality to making sure they have the safety net they
deserve and require.
³I think we need to go back to the starting point as communities and
as a country and basically say, ²If you work, you should not be poor.²
³Build a safety net worthy of our country.²
Fran ??:
How do we fix basics and create an educated workforce? Need quality
education for all children.
Katz (Brookings):
Poor children succeed because of help of community --lot of examples
of schools where poor children excel because of community, corporate and
civic commitment/engagement --everyone pulling in the same direction
Gatz:
The whole community needs to decide that raising achievement level -
- Brookings report says our community needs to decide to change education
³It¹s our problem.
Lyquita ??:
Housing in West End; decision makers decide what to build. Who
should decide what should be built without consulting with residents,
especially senior citizens who have lived there for years and would like to move
-- instead of building subdivision houses like in east end. Why build
³cookie cutter² houses? -- older people want to get out of their homes
Katz (Brookings):
Demographics of country are changing, but cities are holding to a
pattern of housing development from a different era. Need to question why
holding to this pattern when the hole demand for housing is changed. That¹s
the question that is need to be answered.
Lyquita:
Type of housing; living rooms, small kitchen; people who live in
poverty-- will accept what¹s built because its new, but small kitchen
that can¹t accommodate a table/chairs, then you¹re not supporting families
eating together. kitchen is only for cooking in -- not a gathering
place
Sees trend when society has a minority. Need to address all the
minorities. She lives in West End. five things being built in her
neighborhood by minorities; who is going to protect all the
minorities. Identify the percentage of different minorities.
Katz (Brookings):
African-Americans in this community are still large majority and
still major part of local population and will be for next 25 years. Hispanic
immigration here isn¹t that large. Large in percentage terms, but
small in numbers. African-Americans still large part of construction field.
Competitive issue --how to bring these people up and provide education
and skills training. Market has got to respond.
Melissa Berry (city housing official):
Dialogue with community is critical; community involvement is
critical - need conversation between planning group and city -- need to change way
of looking at affordable housing --get away from words like ³burdening²
Katz (Brookings):
It is important to reemphasize the problems associated with working
with federal housing; well-intentioned set of beliefs among some people
that it¹s okay to have a concentration of subsidized housing --part of
community revitalization -- rebuilding the neighborhood block-by-block -- better
to have mixed income communities with opportunities for all people
Shakir (Smoketown resident):
She has lived in low-income housing -- slab foundation house where
she lived with four children -- kids ended up on the porch or in the
streets, no break-out room; her point: developers and planners work 9 to 5 and
she doesn¹t have opportunity to talk to them; said if city officials,
etc., want to work with people in neighborhoods, need to meet with them at
hours when residents can attend; suggested that vacant lots in neighborhoods
be offered to residents rather than to developers
Suda ???:
living wages -- Are there any examples across the country where
these are successful?
Katz (Brookings):
Regional cities around the country are more agreeable to living
wages. I think at the end of the day, we end up back where we are. Many places
in U.S. are accepting these. He is more supportive of these in regional
cities. Even with living wage ordinances, people still can¹t make
ends meet.
Ella Roberts (Smoketown/Shelby Park & LCON):
Smart growth (inaudible)
Katz (Brookings):
Disappointed that this was defeated in legislature -- Ky. ³needs to
find a way to talk about these issues. There is a way to talk about it --
housing is central to the conversation -- housing is central to the
school conversation -- housing is central to the conversation about how you
build wealth; housing is central to the growth factors --has moved off to the
side --housing community needs to become part of a larger conversation about
neighborhoods, working families -- housing is off to the side
Donna Pervis (?):
People don¹t take care about property; ³It affects the whole
neighborhood.²
Tommy Clark (Original Highlands & LCON):
What are you defining as a neighborhood?
Katz (Brookings):
Almost in a common law sense -- go through methodical process of
defining neighborhoods -- ³a sense of neighborhood² -- gets complicated in
suburbia -- when cities incorporate unincorporated areas, they need to go
through a process of trying to define the neighborhood. Older parts of city,
neighborhood lines are defined -- but in suburbia it gets complicated.
going through complicated process and asking people questions--an
opportunity to redefine what neighborhoods are
Paul Schuhmann (Upper Highlands & LCON):
Mentioned Louisville Coalition of Neighborhoods and how it¹s working
to build and support neighborhoods under merger. We¹re reaching out with
currently well over 100 member organizations. We have a substantial
city group and a few county members, but want to involve more groups in the
county. We know the ropes and how to interact with government but
those in the current county seem not to ha ve the inclination or these abilities.
How can we reach out and get county neighborhoods more involved?
Katz (Brookings):
This could be the challenge. Reach out and hope they respond.
They¹re not organized to respond. Institutions need to reach out to them to
get them organized so they can participate. Some are separate
municipalities -- don¹t see themselves as organized in any way. Need to try to get them
to think that way. Educate people about where they live.
Paul Schuhmann:
Part of the problem, I see, with many of those who currently live
in the unincorporated areas of the county -- soon to be Louisville/Jefferson
County Metro -- is their reluctance or slowness, if you will, to accept that
they will become part of the city of Louisville. Many have not participated
in the process before. We must impress upon these residents to quickly
join us in our effort to improve neighborhoods throughout -- and thus improve
the future for the city of Louisville.
Cathy Gonzalez??, (director of Housing Authority of Jefferson County):
We have 8,000 Section 8 households -- 60 percent of complaints are
from people who have problems with neighbors who the callers believe are
Section 8 residents -- and they¹re not. Homogeneity of neighborhoods -- people
who live in $400,000 homes consider it an insult to live next to $250,000
homes. becoming more segregated and more racially segregated -- these
attitudes are coming back into the city -- suburbanization of the city
is a problem -- need diverse housing -- encourage diversity.
Doug Lowry (Beechmont and LCON):
government taking role in defining neighborhoods -- concerned we¹re
being lumped into economic -- seems conversations about economic development
come from on high -- he lives near Churchill Downs, Papa John stadium,
airport, Fair & Expo Center -- How do we partner with Greater Lou. Inc. and
others to share ownership of our community?
Katz (Brookings):
GLI in state of transition --they¹re starting with
waterfront/downtown projects -- no one should take resources from redevelopment projects
and assign them to neighborhood redevelopment
Doug Lowry:
We want to see impact and some responsiveness -- like Southern
Parkway, one alderman said he wasn¹t interested in parkway because it¹s not in
his district -- but driving to Iroquois Park goes through area some people
say is an resource
Steve Tipton (SW Jefferson & LCON):
Thanks for your presentation. He lives in unincorporated area --
we consider it a neighborhood --mentality if not incorporated, not a
neighborhood. several subdivisions there -- seems areas not considered
if not incorporated.
Gatz:
That¹s changing
Katz (Brookings):
That¹s going to change.
Steve Tipton:
LCON in process of organizing -- having trouble including
neighborhoods in the county.
Katz (Brookings):
Merger is opportunity to redefine what neighborhoods are -- we
recommended doing this in a methodical way -- trying a way other places
have been able to do this.
David Silverman (Cherokee Triangle & LCON):
talked about project he previously worked on -- involved with EPA
and HUD -- conclusion was don¹t need more pilot projects on sustainable
housing -- possibility of partnering sustainable with neighborhoods on living
wages, on issues most successful housing era
Katz (Brookings):
As people read report, they will see combination of traditional
thinking on cities and newer thinking about our focus more on land use and
decentralization What we¹ve tried to do is pull together different
strands of thought -- more sustainable you are, the more compatible you will
be. growing a distinctly region-- retaining farmland -- but have very
mature urban core -- Portland, Ore., used light rail to bring
development/people to the urban core --older thinking about reshaping development concept --
GLI focused on attracting talent --to get this need compact areas like
Portland.
Chris Smrt:
He's sure Brookings has seen many developments successful and
unsuccessful -- some believe economic development makes quality of
life --from his experience, what does he believe? Don¹t have to travel
hours to get that kind of thinking because Butchertown has it.
Katz (Brookings):
basics at heart of agenda -- integrated, good schools, safe streets,
quality workforce, sustainable, stable development patterns --that¹s to
me what drives economic growth -- that¹s what will drive economic
growth--that¹s the heart
Emily Boone (Clifton & LCON):
Heard plea for an example -- Butchertown one of the most diverse
neighborhoods she thinks nationally -- business cooperation, ethnically
integrated, economically integrated, trade-wise integrated-- don¹t have
to spend hours in commuting time when we can come to Butchertown -- can
get that kind of thinking -- all of us could have the same type of thinking
because on the same ship together
Kathy Whelan (Bank One):
established political leadership group??, but it was victim of
federal policy -- battled with HUD and Treasury --how to stand up and say
here¹s what we want
Katz (Brookings):
When I think about Louisville, I think about Park DuValle, think
about places that compare to other places where housing was done. Question
is federal government going to be fairy godmother? Given the fiscal
situation at national level now there isn¹t going to be significant federal
housing for 5-7 years -- what¹s important are the rules that govern can be
changed -- how to allocate and distribute resources locally -- some flexibility
-- some federal rules need to be changed -- but people have to be told --
He thinks we do have to change some of the rules
Gatz:
Do have to change rules to build a coalition -- conversation with
state will change -- ³whole new level of engagement² we have to speak up
Cindy Venable (Old Louisville & LCON):
in her job seeing aging in a new way --reduced workforce for younger
people --incredible workforce -- people retiring from first jobs with
many years of productive, active life -- many neighborhoods are sustained by
the elderly people who live there -- important that we be creative in
looking to that resource and developing it
Gatz:
Mentioned in workforce section
Paul Walsh (Schnitzelburg & LCON):
Great report -- how do we as a group of neighborhood associations
impress Metro Govt. we want them follow these results
Unidentified person:
Greater Louisville Project -- create a body of knowledge, ultimate
future -- already had two forums for those who will govern -- saying we hear
you, that we need to find way to worry about drainage, curbs and sidewalks
but at the same time need to ???? politics are local, but more important
that they hear from the people -- this is the important time. We¹re trying
to recondition those who will govern and we¹re going to try to challenge
you and hold you accountable -- we¹re trying to start
Unidentified Woman:
concerned about ³brain drain² -- has stack of rejection letters from
U of L for her children -- she sent them out of state, where they were hired
by major corporations-- wants to know how to fix this -- ³a lot of it is
about racism in Louisville. It¹s hard for African-Americans to grapple with
what happens with ??? -- need to deal with this in a pro-active manner --
and move on to the great things. Second question, will there be a report
when all the forums are completed?
Katz (Brookings):
He agreed with her essentially --bridging racial divide is not just
crucial to do, also because of competitive -- to grow economic need to
retain A-A talent. got to merge to include --
Lyquita:
We need not substitute one minority group for another -- we are
well-trained -- problem is with contracts that substitute one group for
another -- A-A men have skills in mom-and-pop operations --what are we
going to do to recognize and include our minorities. It has nothing to do
with skills and training.
Katz (Brookings):
You ultimately have to hold ourselves??? accountable. At the end
of the day, what you want is information about -- you¹ve got to have that hard
information. If it¹s not happening, you¹re not making progress. At
the end of the day, what you want is information about what you described
is apparent out there, it is accessible to the people who progress. Or
else what you have is talk and no one really know what¹s going on. So
you¹ve got to have is hard information to govern. The new government really have
the ability to put it out there and keep it updated, so that everyone hold
each other accountable.
Amy Liu (Brookings):
Think the issue is every city has a Chamber of Commerce. Every city
has something like GLI -- think the issue is maybe not being the only game
in town --alternative and I think in most places where the neighborhood
voice becomes so dominant are a player. You should not see them as an
audience, you should see them as partner. And I know a lot of people here are
just beginning to organize, but I think got to pull yourselves --have an
agenda--have keep a balanced dialogue. Things we talked about are
really important --when we talk about the report, economic report -- chicken
and egg -- because those projects get city through economic crossroads --
attracting talent, which is wonderful.
Paul S.
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